New Pocock 8+

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Norm
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New Pocock 8+

Postby Norm » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:09 pm

From their newsletter:
A NEW BOAT Is On The Way
Pocock Racing Shells is kicking off our centennial celebration! We've been transforming the sport of rowing since 1911; what better way to celebrate than the release of our BRAND NEW EIGHT? Stay tuned - the new boat will be a game changer...

Caustic - any rumors? Isn't Chinese is it?

Long'n Strong
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Re: New Pocock 8+

Postby Long'n Strong » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:00 pm

I thought rowing was a sport and everyone else plays games.

caustic
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Re: New Pocock 8+

Postby caustic » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:05 pm

I haven't had a chance to bug them for details, but I do know that it's definitely an updated design :)

Norm
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Re: New Pocock 8+

Postby Norm » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:33 am

L&S:

Funny, I went on their boat catalog, a well done brochure, but I noticed the following (emphasis mine):

Hypercarbon V8
A radical departure from the status quo, the Hypercarbon V8 was a game-changer from the start.

BitchinCamaro
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Re: New Pocock 8+

Postby BitchinCamaro » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:58 am

I've heard rumors of a new 8+ floating around for the last couple years, but I never gave them a whole lot of credibility. Their light 8+ hull is going on 12 years now, so I guess they think it's time for an overhaul.
Funny about the "game-changer" line. All manufacturers say similar things, but generally stay away from recycled cliches. Pocock's marketing has always left a little to be desired, but those of us that have dealt with them as customers don't really care about that stuff. While the V8+ introduced a couple neat ideas (wide gunwales for torsional stiffness and the "castellated" gunwale for better rough-water performance) most of what they did was recycled. They certainly weren't the first to put carbon wings on an 8+ (Hudson did it a few years earlier), and their structural design where the seat pan and out hull glue together at the gunwale had been used in their C8+ line since the 1980's.
One thing I have heard some complaints about the last couple years is that the 8+'s coming out of Pocock have been 10-20 pounds underweight. They've made a lot of progress in their layup and curing which has resulted in a lot less material being used, but I think a lot of people would rather have a stiffer, more durable boat that is closer to competition weight. Besideds, adding 15 pounds to a boat is a real pain in the a$$. Hopefully the new design takes this into account better.
Your mileage may vary

caustic
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Re: New Pocock 8+

Postby caustic » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:55 pm

One big innovation with the Hypercarbon series was the introduction of women's specific design features. They were the first to do that.

Also, after I talked with John Tytus about it, turns out the reason that the boats have come in lighter than listed is because the listed weight is assuming that a buyer gets the aluminum wings on the boat. If they get carbon fiber, the boat will come in lighter overall. My bet is that when they transitioned over to using a different composite process on their carbon riggers, they saved a ton of weight - I remember the older carbon riggers tended to have more of an edge on them, and the newer ones are a bit more streamlined. And if adding a 15lb stone in the boat is tough, having to go back over a boat and figure out how to lay down an additional 15lbs of CFRP when a customer decides to go with carbon-fiber riggers instead of aluminum is much more difficult! :) There's always going to be variability with boat weight - if Pocock decided to add more material to the shell, or market the weight assuming carbon riggers, no doubt folks would be talking about how they are coming in OVER weight if they got the heavier riggers.

A few other things Pocock did - the first composite monococque 8 in production (not one-off or prototype), The first to integrate 4-axis CNC lathing into the plug production process - and the first and only (IIRC) to use a single plug for their production. The glue process for the hypercarbon deck isn't much changed from the C8 series, but for a monocoque boat, there's only so many ways you can attach a deck, since you don't have any ribs! :)

And while Hudson did play with carbon fiber riggers before Pocock, they were fixed use - those Big Z riggers were even lower over the footstretchers, and you couldn't bucket rig or starboard stroke with those riggers.

gdoyle
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Re: New Pocock 8+

Postby gdoyle » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:58 am


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completeIgnorance
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Re: New Pocock 8+

Postby completeIgnorance » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:19 pm

And while Hudson did play with carbon fiber riggers before Pocock, they were fixed use - those Big Z riggers were even lower over the footstretchers, and you couldn't bucket rig or starboard stroke with those riggers.


Oh yes you could bucket and starboard stroke.


I think i am changing my christmas wish.

caustic
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Re: New Pocock 8+

Postby caustic » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:00 pm

How? I rowed in one of those Big Z boats back when they were still around, and the rigger pin was fixed, and the mounts for the rigger were on one side - so you couldn't rotate or flip it. Maybe they were an exception to the usual, but I can't seem to locate any photos of 'em now to see if the original Big Zs were different than the ones on the boat I rowed.


and gdoyle, I'm really not sure why you posted that clip from KFM, other than to show that it's a hilarious movie! :)

gdoyle
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Re: New Pocock 8+

Postby gdoyle » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:46 pm

caustic wrote:and gdoyle, I'm really not sure why you posted that clip from KFM, other than to show that it's a hilarious movie! :)


Consult the rules of your existence.

BitchinCamaro
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Re: New Pocock 8+

Postby BitchinCamaro » Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:51 pm

This is why it's hard to be a pro-Pocock guy around here. I'll be honest, I like their boats, I like dealing with them, and I hope the new hull will be as well made and well thought out as the ones they've been making for the past decade. But the kool-aid drinking fanboy makes it next to impossible to have a reasonable, objective discussion about the merits and demerits of their products. When someone always defends a company to the point of making trivial, questionable, or even downright false claims (the Hudson riggers are just one silly example), it weakens the reputation of the company and makes it difficult for people like me to have any meaningful impact on the conversation. Of course, there are plenty of others here who love to play "poke the troll". It may be good for a laugh or two, but it does little to move the conversation forward and you are just as much to blame.
Your mileage may vary

caustic
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Re: New Pocock 8+

Postby caustic » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:36 pm

Heh. "Kool-Aid drinking fanboy".

Which part of my post did you take issue with?


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