Single Length

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lt.wolf
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Single Length

Postby lt.wolf » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:10 am

Hi al

I had a question on single lengths for when reviewing different boats I notice that there are some great differences between the companies.

Kaschper 27 feet 4 inches
Fluid 25 feet 10 inches
Van Dusen 25 feet

How can these varying degrees effect how a boat is rowed and preforms?

Thank you
Sean

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Postby 1xsculler » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:10 am

Good question. I'd like some info on the effect of boat widths at the waterline. A lightweight Van Dusen Advantage (10.25"), a lightweight Wintech Medalist (10.4"), a lightweight Pocock Hypercarbon (10.25"), an Empacher size 15 which for a guy is a lightweight boat (10.75"), a lightweight Van Dusen Traditional (9"), a midweight Fluid (11.125") and a midweight BBG (10.75") are all within 25' 10" to 26' long. The Van Dusens have a bobbed-off stern which would seem to make their effective lengths a little longer. The waterline widths of these boats, all of which I have measured with a caliper except the BBG, are in parentheses. Each of these boats are built for about the same crew weight.

Some boats, I don't remember which ones, Vespoli, Resolute or others, have very different lengths and widths from short and fat to whatever. I haven't gotten up close to these boats so I don't really know what their demensions are. Doesn't one company make all of their singles the same length regardless of crew weight. Go figure.

Something that I find interesting is that the Dreher Boat Company 2008 FISA Ultra shell made by Chris Oxner (Mission Rowing) is, according to their website, 25' 10" long and 9" wide at the waterline. They state that it will support up to a 200 # sculler on flat water. This width is not accurate according to Chris.

You'd think that length and the volume of the hull at the bow and stern would have something to do with the bow and stern bobbing up and down at the catch and at the release.

I'm really curious about width. Personally I don't find the 9" wide Van Dusen Traditional any less stable than the 10.75" Empacher or the 11.125" Fluid although I know some scullers do. That may be due to the fact that I'm just now getting so I can keep my blades off of the water some of the time on the recovery. I can keep my blades off in the V.D. Traditional just as well as in the Empacher.

I would seem to me that the narrower boat would be faster but someone out there smarter than me must have some better info.

The lightweight Van Dusen Advantage at 10.25" and the lightweight Wintech Medalist at 10.4" seem like very good designs for me at 6' 2", and 160 # to 165 #. Every time I've come of the water, have it upside down on slings, am washing off my lightweight Traditional V.D. and see how skinny it is it sure looks like it would be faster, though.

Obviously length and width are only two simplistic factors to consider in hull design but almost all of the boats are pretty much tapered half-round tubes in most of the body of the hull.

Someone else on this forum wanted to know about rocker, bow and stern. I'd like to take side photos of a bunch of same length boats from the side at about the same angle, blow them up, cut the hulls out and compare them.
Last edited by 1xsculler on Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I usually win if none of the guys who are faster than I am show up and if I don't go off course.

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Postby Steven M-M » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:25 pm

1x: What are the hull depths when you are sitting in your Empacher and traditional VD?
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Postby 1xsculler » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:55 pm

I haven't payed much attention to hull depths. I rigged all of my boats so the front edge of the seat was 5" below the bottom of a straight stick laying in the oarlocks. I sat in the boats in the water, leveled them (it's easy on flat water) and measured from the bottom of the oarlock, where the oar rests. by putting a weight on the end of a flexible plastic tape measure and pulling it through the oarlock under the oar until the end just touched the water. I set that oarlock height at 9 1/2 to 10" off the water. From the lightweight VD traditional to the Fluid all of the boats seemed to float me well and they all seemed to row well. I always kept my Crokers collars unchanged and set the pin spread at 160cm. I'm, obviously, no naval architect and I really know pretty much nothing (absolutely nothing) about the science of wetted surface or hull shape or drag. My info is strictly seat of the pants, amatuerish (sp?) comparisons.
I usually win if none of the guys who are faster than I am show up and if I don't go off course.

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Postby lt.wolf » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:43 am

Hi all

Some of yesterdays data was lost due to a patch to the system - we apologize. Things should run a bit smoother this week.

The boards will come down on Sunday June 29 from the hours of 3-6 pm for a few hours for an update to the boards to take place.

Thanks for your patience.

Sean

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Postby Steven M-M » Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:12 am

Sean -- Getting back to your question, except the featherweight, aren't all Kaschper singles the same length? My impression is that the hull is designed so more of the bow and stern is out of the water for LW making the effective length shorter. But you're the rep and I'm just basing this on casual observation.
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Postby lt.wolf » Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:21 am

Actually they are not.

My midweight one is 27 feet 4 inches long. The lightweight one which is 26. 4 inches long. The midweight is built for 155 lbs - 185lbs while the lightweightone is built for 125 - 155 Hmmm what does the 153 lb guy in this case. Midweight or lightweight ???

OVERALL LENGTH: Standard: 8.32 m (27' 4")
OVERALL LENGTH: Fly/Lightwt Option: (26' 4")
WIDTH AT WATERLINE: 0.268 m (10 1/2")
AVERAGE DEPTH AT GUNNEL: 0.156 m (6 1/8") (Based on Midweight Shell)
AVERAGE BOAT WEIGHT RANGE: 13 - 15.5 kg (28.6 - 34 lbs.completely rigged.)

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Postby Steven M-M » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:55 am

What are the lenghts for the Kaschper HW and Super HW singles? Longer than 8.3m?
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Postby lt.wolf » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:58 am

Hi all

We will be running an update to the system later today.

The boards will come down for one to two hours. I will give an hours notice and then the boards will be restored with all current data intact.

We apologize for the inconvenience

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Postby lt.wolf » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:28 am

They are the same at 27 feet 4 inches.

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Postby Steven M-M » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:36 am

And if you are just sitting in your single how much of the bow and stern are out of the water? You may need to ask a friend to guestimate. My guess is that your effective length is closer to 26', which is more "standard" for a LW/MW single.
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Postby 1xsculler » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:48 pm

I would bet that, for a 155 # sculler of average heigth for that weight, BBG, Hudson, Empacher, Filippi, Kirs, Sykes, Empacher, Fluid, Wintech, Pocock, Van Dusen and some others I can't think of right now would recommend a 1x within an inch or two of 25' 10" in length. So, either Jacob Kaschper knows something none of the rest do and all of the other boat builders are on the wrong track or visa versa. Just my $ 0.02.
I usually win if none of the guys who are faster than I am show up and if I don't go off course.

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Postby caustic » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:31 pm

It depends. some manufacturers stick to designs that were first built in wood, others have conformed to the FISA shape, and a very few have used computer or CAD modelling to determine their hulls.

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Postby lt.wolf » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:26 pm

I will be trying the smaller 26 foot hull out next week.

I am happy to announce that the blog page has been updated.

Ergo warrior is now launched

and

Hungry like the .....is new as well

www.rowingillustrated.com

the oars will be updated shortly

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Postby coggs » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:26 pm

I own a Kaschper Raven HW and there is very little overhang while stationary. But that may have more to do with my 210#'s than anything else. :cry:

Perhaps the extra lenghth has something to do with it being a great straight line boat, but I'd be tempted to fit a smaller skeg for something like the HOCR.


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