Trainerroad for rowing

[limegreenspeed]

I'm using Trainerroad for indoor cycling. For those unfamiliar, this is an AI-assisted automated training program platform that gives its users training plans where the intensities are set by assessing the cyclist's functional threshold power. The rest is pretty standard, save for TR's preference for 'sweet spot' training for users because most users don't have time to train a lot so intensity makes up for the lack of volume, or so the thinking goes.

There are a number of different plans and two (maybe three) ways to set functional threshold power (FTP). As far as I understand it, FTP is the theoretical max hour power an athlete could hold -- I think I've read that it's maximum lactate steady state. It turns out that most cyclists, even pros, cannot actually hold their assessed FTP for an hour. Anyways, the common proxy tests for FTP are the 20min test and one-minute step tests. For the 20min test, cyclists do a max effort 20mins and then their FTP is determined by taking 95% of the 20min power. For the step test, power increases in one-minute increments by 15-20 watts until the cyclist can't continue, then 75% of the max one-minute power is taken as FTP.

FTP seems like the name of the game in cycling and most cyclists use it to set their training -- so training is power-based, with things like HR and RPE taking a backset. Zone 2 intensity is usually 65-75% of FTP, for example, sweet spot is 75-85%, I think, threshold 85-100%, VO2 max is 100-120%, I think, etc.

I am curious whether anyone trains using these principles in rowing? I realize rowing is a small world and the market for a program like this isn't too big (Rojabo seems similar in that it tests people and spits out workouts with intensities based on power), but I would imagine taking some percentage of 6k (20 min proxy) or 1hr test power and using that to set training zones would be really beneficial for many. I remember rowing Canada doing the standard physiological tests back in the day (RADAR) all the way from 10 stroke max tests through to 1hr max. That battery is obviously useful for assessing where a given athletes physiology sits currently and also for assessing whether they're more power or endurance based, but the tests weren't ever used to set training intensities for rowers, at least they weren't for me.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Were I a coach, this is something I'd want for my athletes to get them personalized training intensities. Of course its important to still have tough group workouts, max efforts, etc., but for the bulk of training I'd want them sitting in prescribed zones set for their physiology, and since HR alone is a pretty crude metric without other tests to go along with it (knowing HR max, knowing 6k ave HR, knowing 1hr mx HR, etc)

Anyone else have thoughts about this kind of thing? Maybe it is all the rage and I'm ignorant but as far as I can tell power-based training isn't really a thing, or setting intensities off of 6k or 1hr power isn't.

[pmacaula]

Not sure it is quite what you are looking for but Mike Caviston came up with the Wolverine Plan (as he was training the UofM women's team at the time) and there were a number of threads in the C2 erg forums starting in 2005. The WP targets are power based, with training thresholds based on a recent 2K max. There are four different types of workout (L1/L2/L3/L4) going from short pieces at high intensity to low rate high power.
I followed a WP-based plan as closely as I could for a year back in 2008/09 and had good results.

Cheers. Patrick.

[Almostflipped]

Rowing has been doing this for years, but most rowers don't realize it. When we set our paces off a 20 minute or 6k test, we are just doing an FTP test by another name. I made an excel sheet some years back plotting the recommended paces based on a wide variety of 6k paces, converted to watts, and the used the FTP zones often given in cycling and the suggested split differential from Volker Nolte's work (+12-16, +8-12, etc.....) and then for kicks did the same with 2k paces and classic split differentials off that. The overlap is exquisite. A little difference here and there, but I find it almost impossible to think the mild differences I saw would actually matter in day to day training. So my answer is, we already do this, just people don't realize it. Personally, I used 6k split differentials a lot when coaching juniors to get consistency and because not everyone had a HR monitor. Worked fine.

As for the one minute step test, interestingly Rojabo does something similar. It then gets rather different, but they include a one minute step test to help determine pacing. So again, there are people doing similar things.

[limegreenspeed]

[quote="Almostflipped"]Rowing has been doing this for years, but most rowers don't realize it. When we set our paces off a 20 minute or 6k test, we are just doing an FTP test by another name. I made an excel sheet some years back plotting the recommended paces based on a wide variety of 6k paces, converted to watts, and the used the FTP zones often given in cycling and the suggested split differential from Volker Nolte's work (+12-16, +8-12, etc.....) and then for kicks did the same with 2k paces and classic split differentials off that. The overlap is exquisite. A little difference here and there, but I find it almost impossible to think the mild differences I saw would actually matter in day to day training. So my answer is, we already do this, just people don't realize it. Personally, I used 6k split differentials a lot when coaching juniors to get consistency and because not everyone had a HR monitor. Worked fine.

As for the one minute step test, interestingly Rojabo does something similar. It then gets rather different, but they include a one minute step test to help determine pacing. So again, there are people doing similar things.[/quote]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I don’t remember ever doing prescriber workouts based on 6k or 2k watts/times. Interesting that 6k was used for the FTP, as the ‘theoretical’ idea is that FTP is the max pace for an hour. In any case, I wonder how widespread the practice you describe is.

I just played around with my PR 6k and got splits that seemed pretty reasonable for 65-75% of 6k power.

[Almostflipped]

[quote]Interesting that 6k was used for the FTP, as the ‘theoretical’ idea is that FTP is the max pace for an hour.[/quote]

Strictly speaking yes, but there are multiple modifications that allow a 20-30 minute test as a substitute.