Coxswain comfort

[Lane-TU]

I've always found that the Vespoli M2 seat is very spacious for a coxswain (especially a fatty like me). The V1 is always a bit of a squeeze when I'm not in my unisuit (plus the space for feet is a bit cramped too). No complaints though, I love coxing and comfort comes in a definite second to making sure my boat is the fastest on the water!

I've never experienced any back problems though.

[repnation]

My main issue is knees. Staying stiff in resolutes, especially the XT, requires you to keep your feet almost at a 90 degree angle from the hull when you are tall. The seat itself is really nice. I have always hated the padding they put in the vespoli because it's way more uncomfortable than just the carbon fiber. By far the best coxswain seat I have ever seen is the a quantum bow loaded 4 with a full back and headrest.

[state of mind]

So I just got cleared to cox again. Still no rowing until May, but at least I now have a recent experience to fall back on...

I WAS going to be in the mens hwt 8+ - a big Hudson. I'm definitely not coxswain size, but I can sit all the way back and lean forward and not have the circulation to my lower legs cut off. I view that as a good day. But no. The, ummm, even wider-beamed person who was also coxing tossed me out and into the mens ltwt 8+, in a Vespoli DS 8+.

So now it all comes back to me. The way I deal with this is to fold a lifejacket so I'm sitting on half and the other half is behind me. I'm simply not small enough to fit all the way back and down in that seat and if I try I end up slouching back - sitting on my lower spine - and THAT'S when the back problems are going to arise. The lifejacket gives me just enough support to let me lean forward and press with my feet against the board to brace my hips back. As long as stroke's arms don't stretch another couple of centimeters and kneecap me, I'm good to go.

And I polled the coxswains I saw. Different seats have (slightly) different geometries based on hull depth, length, etc. As long as you modify (as I describe with the lifejacket) to ensure that you are bracing your feet and leaning forward, your back is going to be fine. Unless your back is so weak that you can't do back extensions or deadlifts, in which case it's only a matter of time before SOMETHING you do lays you up - coxing, reaching to the back seat of the car, whatever. If you have even moderate core and lower body strength and you keep your posture set, your back is protected.

[state of mind]

...By far the best coxswain seat I have ever seen is the a quantum bow loaded 4 with a full back and headrest.

A coach I know hates dealing with bowloaders in practice, at least in part because she once had a coxswain fall asleep in one of them during early morning practice - it was so comfortable. Myself, you describe the back and headrest and I have visions of sunglasses and an umbrella-drink.

[rowbigred]

Honestly, I've had no problem with comfort. Yeah, it's no La-Z-Boy, but neither am I. And this is coming from a grossly oversized 6' 155 lb cox (former rower, injured knee). I agree 100% that Vespoli's padding is worse than the carbon fiber, but honestly, it's about the rowers, not me. I only have to be in there until they finish, so the better I cox, the sooner I'm off the water, that's how I see it.

[state of mind]

Two new data points-

I just coxed in a midwt(?) Reso 8+. That seat is MAYBE 8" across, and a foot deep. I had to use a full lifejacket to sit high and forward enough to not cry, and that stuck my knees into the middle of the rudder cable which is strung about 2 feet from the cox seat backrest. The only way to keep my knees from steering for me (randomly, at that) was to tuck my feet up near my butt rather than bracing them in front of me. On the plus side, though, since there ISN'T any place to brace your feet except the raw carbon fiber edge of the stroke seat well, that was a relief. Apparently our jr boys coxswain just sits farther forward and runs the cable BEHIND his knees.

I also coxed in a Reso 4+ the other day. Apparently the 4+ came with the cox-box holder installed in the center of the coxswain opening, directly under steering bar. This was a big shock the first time I slid in. Without getting too explicit, let's just say that I'm glad I'm not a guy, because the part of my anatomy that was "cradled" by that coxbox holder was pretty unhappy. Fortunately that silly placement issue (of the coxbox holder) was fixed with a wrench.

So I'm wondering if Reso just has it in for coxswains. Glad I'm really a sculler.

The one useful point from all of this is that it seems like the Reso 8+ is way less forgiving about check - I coxed the same lineup in an Empacher on Tuesday and the Reso today, and the check at the catch was WAY worse this morning. Fixable by them with some concentration, but definitely there. I've noticed the same thing in the Reso 4+ in comparison to Vespoli 4+s as well. It's not really a comfort thing, per se, but it sure does affect the boat speed. Once you learn how to deal with it (not having a race to see who gets to the catch first is a help) it seems like a really fast boat though.

[fullmetal]

Too much in the way of isometric muscle tension can affect how a coxswain distributes his/her weight in the boat. I tend to use my feet and my entire lower spine (say, from L2, L3 downward) as major directional contact points. Of course, if I braced myself with my arms on the gunwales, tailbone and feet would work pretty well, but I like to keep my hands loose on the steering ropes and leave my arms out of the weight distribution issue. The way I sit, I get bruised where the top of the cockpit's rear meets my spine, but it's nothing muscular or damaging--as far as I know.

Pocock Hypercarbons hurt my not-eight-or-less-inches-across butt (downward slanted sides of the seat converge and squeeze inward). I can live with anything else in my recollection, including Hudsons, Empachers, Vespolis, and Resolutes. Resolutes can be a bit tight, but they're generally survivable. The "new" Pococks are intolerable. Make yourself a seat cushion ahead of time.

[Samwell]

Fullmetal- I know what you mean with the bruising. I've just always called it the coxswain mark.

As for comfort in the coxswain's seat . . . really? I've always figured whatever marginal pain I'm in can't compare to the 8 guys in front of me (or 4 behind). But that being said I was coxing for some women's masters a couple years back and I swear i was contemplating installing a cupholder in the stern. It was ridiculously comfortable and spacious.

Now when it comes to bow loaders I like to sit in a semi-crunch position (Also helps keep me awake during morning practice, state of mind). I brace my back against the incline or strap and hold myself there with my feet. Does anyone else do this or is it just me. Whenever I put my neck down in a Vespoli 4+ it feels like my head is going to get taken off. I don't know who at Vespoli decided not covering the metal edges with the already thin strip of styrofoam was a good idea.

michael- I have to disagree about staying low. There are visibility issues already and that would only enhance them.

Now at the last Temple coxswain clinic I was at (the one in '08 with Cippolone) he gives two specific postures.
The stiff arm: Connected at 3 points. Legs and arms keeping your back braced against the seat.
The soft arm: Connected at 2 points. Legs bracing your back against the seat.
I would recommend the stiff arm for novices. It keeps the hands relatively stationary, so it should keep the strings relatively stationary as well.

[Michael]

I looked around, not over.

In practice, unless you're on an extremely long straight shot, you're steering often enough that you get plenty of looks at what is going to be ahead of you for the next few hundred meters. If that wasn't enough, I leaned a little and looked. Unless I got up off the seat, trying to look over wasn't going to do me any good.

[Michael]

Now at the last Temple coxswain clinic I was at (the one in '08 with Cippolone) he gives two specific postures.
The stiff arm: Connected at 3 points. Legs and arms keeping your back braced against the seat.
The soft arm: Connected at 2 points. Legs bracing your back against the seat.
I would recommend the stiff arm for novices. It keeps the hands relatively stationary, so it should keep the strings relatively stationary as well.

For what it's worth, I was in between these. I rested my forearm on the gunwale, with my elbow outside the gunwale maybe an inch or two, and my wrist basically right on the gunwale. My ring finger and middle finger were on either side of the gunwale, my middle finger and index finger were on one end of the handle (one on each side of the string), and my thumb was on the other end of the handle. My arms weren't tense, and my elbows were definitely bent, but my hands were definitely stable.

[rowingcox]

i really like filippis. they have plenty of room, and this is coming from a 6 foot tall guy.
aso thers this quarter inch of foam to stop your back from getting smashed from rush.

[daphillyboul9]

i really like filippis. they have plenty of room, and this is coming from a 6 foot tall guy.
aso thers this quarter inch of foam to stop your back from getting smashed from rush.

I have never been in a Filippi 8+ before, only Vespolis, Rezzies and Empacher. Comfort isn't really that big of an issue, except when the weather is cold, and you can't slide your hips in the damn boat.

[cox'n]

In Vespolis I used to take out the back sling that came with the boat and replace it with a kneeling pad like the type used for gardening. I found it allowed me another inch or so of leg room and allowed me to get more of my back against the seat for a little more positional stability. Over the years I suggested or bought these cushions for other coxswains who need additional support and comfort. By and large, they've gotten good/great reviews.
Here is one that is extremely similar (or perhaps updated version of the ones I bought over the years) ...
http://www.amazon.com/Venture-8X16x1kne ... B000K7TOHI

Just as a poorly rigged rower will be uncomfortable and won't row his best an uncomfortable coxswain will not be at his best.

[Coxswain3]

The biggest problem for me in stern loaded boats is leg room. I'm 5'7 and i'm pretty cramped in vespoli 8's. Hudson however provides a lot of leg room. I think the only one that my butt didn't fit in and was extraordinarily uncomfortable was a Syke's 8. The shell was formerly owned by australia's national team and it is a racing shell down to the coxswain's seat. The back is actually inclined towards the bow so you're forced to lean forward throughout the entire time your in the boat.

[BlindCoxswain]

I am a pretty tall and skinny coxswain, and personally I fit most comfortable in a Hudson 8, and Pococks and Vespolis are pretty brutal because they have a shorter back support than Hudsons and some Resolutes. Comfort in the coxswain seat doesn't matter during a race (usually I forget about everything else except the race) but on long swing rows my back can feel a little messed up afterwords. But no coxswain wants to say "man my back hurts after that row" when 8 guys in front of you actually had to row it.