Scullers Entry

[track_bites]

Thanks to all of you for the replies! It's a lot to digest.

Sul: I've done some version of what you are saying in my shell, but focusing in a different way. I have been coming to the catch and then repetitively dropping and raising my blades on the square, mostly working on balance. I have also been doing a top quarter drill, essentially going from catch to half slide and recovering on the square. I think if I do a version of that and try to think through your "kinesthetic" advice, it could be very helpful.

One thing about the top quarter drill, it certainly limits the amount of water I miss, since I am pushing through so little of the drive. Grabbing a Wherry and going through your advice sounds like a great idea. I'll try to make that happen.

I also you are spot on about getting help. Having someone next to me in a launch telling me when I do something right would be awesome. Maybe I'll look for some coaching in the spring. I think it could be really helpful.

Kit: I recognize the "sweet spot" feeling that you describe. I will, every once in a while, hit that catch where the stroke just feels perfect and the split drops down about 5 seconds. I'm not sure I get exactly to catch with my pecs, but I think experimentation will be coming in the spring.

Sean: I think you are describing exactly what I am trying to do in the ideal, and almost always fall short. I've tried using side video for feedback, but the fact that it isn't real time, makes it hard to get a feel for whether I am actually fixing anything. Again, it is a case for getting some actual human coaching.

Thanks again for the replies.

[sul]

Thanks to all of you for the replies! It's a lot to digest.

Sul: I've done some version of what you are saying in my shell, but focusing in a different way. I have been coming to the catch and then repetitively dropping and raising my blades on the square, mostly working on balance. I have also been doing a top quarter drill, essentially going from catch to half slide and recovering on the square. I think if I do a version of that and try to think through your "kinesthetic" advice, it could be very helpful.

One thing about the top quarter drill, it certainly limits the amount of water I miss, since I am pushing through so little of the drive. Grabbing a Wherry and going through your advice sounds like a great idea. I'll try to make that happen.

I also you are spot on about getting help. Having someone next to me in a launch telling me when I do something right would be awesome. Maybe I'll look for some coaching in the spring. I think it could be really helpful.

snip

In this thread you've gotten two confllicting suggestions on how to catch. When you find that coach, you're likely to get a third. I'd say about 1/3 of the rowers who read my suggestion for you are saying in their head: "well, that's not a good way to learn to catch, and it totally misses XXXX" where XXXX is an aspect of the catch process they understand.

LOL, good luck! :^)

[mightyquinn]

More food for thought, check out Gordon Hamilton's book, "Sculling in a Nutshell" and/or listen to the podcast of his interview on Rowing Chats.

[lt.wolf]

Please note my sarcasm in my previous post

[Steven M-M]

MightyQ -- While there is lots of good stuff in Gordon's "Nutshell," his description of how lift works is wrongheaded. Lift develops in response to force the rower puts on the handle, not before. This is why you need to be quick about placing the blade but also why you can begin to put appropriate force on the handle once the blade is partially covered. (PS, I not expert in fluid dynamics, but when I saw this in Gordon's book I checked with some folks with deep knowledge of all this.)

[track_bites]

Please note my sarcasm in my previous post

I'm an idiot.

[Long'n Strong]

Can anyone name which top-class scullers from the past 20 years have demonstrated this flip catch while racing at the Olympics, World Championships or World Cups?

[sul]

Please note my sarcasm in my previous post

How can we tell? </sarcasm> :*)

[sul]

Can anyone name which top-class scullers from the past 20 years have demonstrated this flip catch while racing at the Olympics, World Championships or World Cups?

It's a long thread. I asked the question if you can find an example of someone racing EVER with the flip catch.

Racing, not paddling.

I linked to a vid of the 1936 Udub "Boys" in the last 100 meters of their race and of them in a training session, clearly squaring the blade before entry.

Frankly, they squared before Campbell did in his single that lt.wolf posted.

[sul]

I was always taught to square early, (1/2 - 3/4 slide) be prepared and stand into the catch and place the blade into the water and then pick up the speed of the hull by pushing the legs leaving the shoulders in the stern of the boat. Hold the rectangle , create suspension and acceleratation. Thing of throwing a fast ball thru the water, it picks up speed as it gets to the finish.

snip

Would this be squaring early or a flip catch?
http://youtu.be/lWP9gbrdU2U

This is a good vid here. Campbell is squaring later than most, and has a good catch(hint - I'm precise here). But here's an exercise for you coaches.
Campbell takes six strokes. Watch all of them a few times and see if you see differences from one to the next.

I won't make my observations just yet.

I have training videos of Lukas Babak when he was on my waters training with his coach, and also vids of the NZ double training in singles from a few years ago.

It is extremely instructive to me to watch the difference in consistency in comparing the scullers from NZ and Babak to the many Americans I've watched, I've captured a number in training vids on my own.

Most American scullers are unable to make good catches or finishes. Some can very well, but the best are still not as consistent as their counterparts.

It is NOT about the physiology'energy engines, it's about the quality and consistency of the rowing. I'm not talking about the Drysdale types, but of a Joe Sullivan who is prolly a 6:00 erg at best. Lukas has never broken 6:00, or hadn't when he won a silver in the NZ worlds.

Walter, I hope you weigh in on this!

[sul]

snip


When you are rating 36 it's all a flip catch

Being flippant?

Just in case, I'm being specific with Caustic on what a flip catch is. A flip catch is not a late rollup, but the act of the pull on the blade while not quite square in the water, squaring the blade on the drive. The tip of the blade knifes in at an angle at full reach and the blade quickly squares as it buries.

I have seen it done at a paddle, and we have vids of Frank Cunningham attempting to demo it.

I spend a couple days with Conn Findlay a couple weeks ago, and regret that of all the rowing and sailing and life stuff I pried from him, I didn't really get to this.
Maybe I can talk him into another road trip, I'm up for it.

[sul]

Can anyone name which top-class scullers from the past 20 years have demonstrated this flip catch while racing at the Olympics, World Championships or World Cups?

It's a long thread. I asked if anyone has seen anyone anytime at a racing pace demonstrating the flip catch.

I linked to vid of the 1936 UDub crew clearly squaring before entry, coached by Ulbrichson and Pocock.

[lt.wolf]

Track bites , I do believe in an early square. My sarcasm was only directed at the rubbish comment.

[track_bites]

Track bites , I do believe in an early square. My sarcasm was only directed at the rubbish comment.

There is no way you could comprehend how little I know. I basically try random suggestions and watch my heart rate and speed. If the speed goes up and the heart rate stays the same, I think it's probably a step in the right direction. If it doesn't I assume it must be wrong.

[lt.wolf]

Here are a few drills

Row , pause every other stroke at half slide, square the blade and go take the catch at full slide . Once you have a hang of that you will have a good feel for placing the blade. Then try it at 3/4

Row half slide for a min, then 3/4 slide for a min, then full slide for a min, then go to alternating half , 3/4 and full slide. Works timing of the front end.

Work on placing the blade at zero pressure and then just accelerate to half pressure , then to 3/4 , then full. Let the speed of the boat dictate your rhythm.


Always think "stand and place " the blade.


By the way, those coaches who teach their rowers to square late into a headwind for "speed" , do you teach them to square eary in a tail wind to get the added "speed"of sailing?