pics in row2k gallery of elite scullers gripping their oars?

[sul]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuqpn7mbwM8


The video quality is horrible, but if you look at the general positioning of the hands for Kolbe and Karppinen, they appear to have their hands more close to the end of the oar, and I don't see (or can't see) any pronounced "hose thumb" over the end. 4:42 for Kolbe, 6:30 for Karppinen.

snip

at 4:49 Kolbe's right hand is in good position, thumb at the end of the handle, and not underneath. I agree w/ 1xsculler that there is no need beyond the first couple days of learning to scull to press out on the thumbs, the thumbs simply guide the hand to stay at the end of the handle and help hands stay relaxed.

[KitD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccuT8vGz_h8

1:45 with Ivanof sculling, you get a good view of his hands, particularly his right hand since that end is facing the camera. You can see pretty clearly his thumb is below the centerline of the handle, and the index finger is right up on the end of the oar.

Sorry this is OT, but I find it remarkable how "modern" the technique of that M8 looks. In similar videos of that era, you often see bent backs, lay-backs and extreme forward body reach. They are very sat up though. Slower hands at the finish and they would pass for a modern crew.

[Steven M-M]

1x -- I've worked with a number of beginner masters scullers and keeping the collar nested against the pin is a common problem. In my observation this is often because these scullers first "learned to row" on the erg where the hands go forward and don't follow the arc as in rowing on the water. But I agree that the solution is not thumb pressure or forefinger subtly hooked over the handle, as Cunningham advises, "Your forefingers will rest on the radiused end of the handle and the second joint of the second finger will be approximately at the top of it" (p. 29). (I admit I had to look up "radiused" and it means the rounded edge.) To me the solution is good posture at the entry and creating pressure outward with relaxed shoulders and upper arms. Outward pressure with the thumb or forefinger just creates tension in the hand.

KitD -- I was also struck with how contemporary most of the rowing technique looked.

[sul]

snip

KitD -- I was also struck with how contemporary most of the rowing technique looked.

I think by 1963 the Americans and commonwealth nations were the last holdouts for the traditional rowing styles and their varieties. In the '64 Olys, I think only the US pair/w (Findlay/Ferry/Mitchell) rowed with standard blades.

Adam's Ratzeburg crews won in '60 with rowing style not much different than we do now, though I think
with even less body swing than now and much more track length. The revolution then was high rates of striking,
more legs/less swing. The Ratzeburg eight raced at a 40 in the body which was revolutionary at the time.

Awesome video of the Russians. I love the hard catches by the eight, very characteristic. Also, I remember seeing films of the successful Russian scullers of the 70s, Timoshinen at al, and they sculled right over left on the crossover.
In the vid both Ivanov and the double scull left over right. I've wondered at this over the years, why the standard of left over right? When I teach scullers, it seems that many of us want to push right out instead of left.

When I'm asked why left/right, my answer is one I made up because I don't want to just say "it's the custom". I make this up: Most of us are right handed and most of our athletic stances, boxing, defense in bball/football, tennis stances has left foot forward and left hand. But scullers I observe that tend to push the right first are not left handers.

It's interesting to compare Ivanov in those training films to how he rowed in the vids of the 56 Olys. So much smoother and easily.

As far as the rowing style evolution/stasis, I saw a film clip ofJoe Burk in about '38 where he was training.

can't find that it's been digitized. Here he is at the Henley final in '38:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCFk0NkIrtc It's the last 20 strokes so hard to make conclusions.

Joe invented his own sculling style which was identical to the later continental styles. He raced at 36 body with much less body swing than was the custom. Lots of interval work like Karl Adam introduced later.

Used the same standard oars of the day. George Pocock built Joe's single for him for Henley, it was 28 lbs. Joe was 6 ft 4.

[Long'n Strong]

The response I usually give is that most people are right-handed, so when we row left over left (left in front of right), the top hand has the mechanical advantage, evening out the physical advantage of the right hand.

[oldman]

Thomas Lange rowed right over left, as was the custom in the East
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LztQXyhBVOY&t=96s
How to hold the handles vary, as seen in the latest issue of Rowing (cover and inside).
Rather than say that one is correct or better, teach the young scullers to try different ways of holding the handles so that they can decide which works best and they gain control over what they do. And make sure there is discussion and feedback with them to get improvement.

My impression of that Soviet eight is that their blades are moving too fast through the drive relative to the speed of the hull.

[caustic]

snip

KitD -- I was also struck with how contemporary most of the rowing technique looked.

I think by 1963 the Americans and commonwealth nations were the last holdouts for the traditional rowing styles and their varieties. In the '64 Olys, I think only the US pair/w (Findlay/Ferry/Mitchell) rowed with standard blades.

Adam's Ratzeburg crews won in '60 with rowing style not much different than we do now, though I think
with even less body swing than now and much more track length. The revolution then was high rates of striking,
more legs/less swing. The Ratzeburg eight raced at a 40 in the body which was revolutionary at the time.

Awesome video of the Russians. I love the hard catches by the eight, very characteristic. Also, I remember seeing films of the successful Russian scullers of the 70s, Timoshinen at al, and they sculled right over left on the crossover.
In the vid both Ivanov and the double scull left over right. I've wondered at this over the years, why the standard of left over right? When I teach scullers, it seems that many of us want to push right out instead of left.

When I'm asked why left/right, my answer is one I made up because I don't want to just say "it's the custom". I make this up: Most of us are right handed and most of our athletic stances, boxing, defense in bball/football, tennis stances has left foot forward and left hand. But scullers I observe that tend to push the right first are not left handers.

It's interesting to compare Ivanov in those training films to how he rowed in the vids of the 56 Olys. So much smoother and easily.

As far as the rowing style evolution/stasis, I saw a film clip ofJoe Burk in about '38 where he was training.

can't find that it's been digitized. Here he is at the Henley final in '38:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCFk0NkIrtc It's the last 20 strokes so hard to make conclusions.

Joe invented his own sculling style which was identical to the later continental styles. He raced at 36 body with much less body swing than was the custom. Lots of interval work like Karl Adam introduced later.

Used the same standard oars of the day. George Pocock built Joe's single for him for Henley, it was 28 lbs. Joe was 6 ft 4.

That's amazing how he has literally zero layback, but there's no pause at all around the finish, it's like the handles are just bouncing right off and back towards the catch.

Surprisingly, Pocock's "teardrop single" that George made for Joe becamse a pretty popular shape for a single - they offered it right up until when they stopped building wooden singles.

[1xsculler]

Chuck Cook, one of the fastest 70+ lightweight scullers at HOC and a student of Marlene Royles, also sculls with nearly zero layback coupled with almost instantaneous slamming down of his legs. It works well for him.