Rowing, Diversity, Inclusion and Racism

[fullmetal]

I'm guessing there are some quality standards that differ between the Chinese ergs and C2 ergs? Anyone able to speak to that?

Rogue Fitness is selling C2 Model D ergs for $900. I think Oartec used to sell a static erg (C2 style) that ran about $600. They only sell dynamic ergs now--think C2 look but with RP3 movement--for about $2000 MSRP. Interestingly enough, I think it's probably easier to design and manufacture a dynamic erg in that style; there's no need to design a robust support for the flywheel that'll withstand full power.

If you want to buy a ~$300 Chinese erg, please let us know how much it actually costs incl shipping.

[Minetti]

...and how long it lasts. People too often only see the first upfront cost, not total cost of ownership, which with some brands at least, is not as high as you might think. My club for instance has bought some yellow and wooden coloured boats in the past, i.e. over 25 years ago. They are still being used in recreational and masters programs and certainly will be for at least another decade.

[sandor]

Do not forget the cost of the employee.

I like to think that some of the extra money of a C2 erg is foundational in providing a decent working class living for some of my fellow citizens.
And i am quite okay with that.

[rowing]

Do not forget the cost of the employee.

I like to think that some of the extra money of a C2 erg is foundational in providing a decent working class living for some of my fellow citizens.
And i am quite okay with that.

I'm not advocating to buy Chinese rowing machines. I am using their price as the likely to be close to the net cost of building a machine.

Are we okay with paying $1000 to $2000 for machines that are $250 to $400 in value?

Is it disingenuous to point to manufacturer charity and outreach, when in fact that is only made possible by taking money from the marketplace and "redistributing" it to pet causes, however noble they might be?

Who is, then, the actual donor?

[Slim]

Do not forget the cost of the employee.

I like to think that some of the extra money of a C2 erg is foundational in providing a decent working class living for some of my fellow citizens.
And i am quite okay with that.

I'm not advocating to buy Chinese rowing machines. I am using their price as the likely to be close to the net cost of building a machine.

Are we okay with paying $1000 to $2000 for machines that are $250 to $400 in value?

Is it disingenuous to point to manufacturer charity and outreach, when in fact that is only made possible by taking money from the marketplace and "redistributing" it to pet causes, however noble they might be?

Who is, then, the actual donor?

I know, I let my employer take the tax write off for all my charitable gifts. That is where the money comes from right?

[sandor]

Do not forget the cost of the employee.

I like to think that some of the extra money of a C2 erg is foundational in providing a decent working class living for some of my fellow citizens.
And i am quite okay with that.

I'm not advocating to buy Chinese rowing machines. I am using their price as the likely to be close to the net cost of building a machine.

Are we okay with paying $1000 to $2000 for machines that are $250 to $400 in value?

Is it disingenuous to point to manufacturer charity and outreach, when in fact that is only made possible by taking money from the marketplace and "redistributing" it to pet causes, however noble they might be?

Who is, then, the actual donor?

I was responding "at large", not in response to anything, but "net cost" needs to include labor - roughly 10x the cost in the US compared to China.

And, yes, in the US where a decade ago the Supreme Court upheld first amendment rights for corporations (Citizens United), it would be foolish to buy blindly & not understand that your consumer spending isn't in a vacuum.

And given the long history of corporate boycotts, people seem to understand this with little issue.

[rowing]

Is it disingenuous to point to manufacturer charity and outreach, when in fact that is only made possible by taking money from the marketplace and "redistributing" it to pet causes, however noble they might be?

Who is, then, the actual donor?

I know, I let my employer take the tax write off for all my charitable gifts. That is where the money comes from right?

When you agree to the value of your wages, that is a contract between you and your employer. What you do with your money thereafter, and any accommodations you make with Uncle Sam in terms of personal tax deductions are of no interest to your employer.

There have been marketing campaigns that imply corporate goodwill based on the activities and generosity of employees, but that is just a virtue signal. There is no accounting trick in the world that allows the company to take actual credit on the books for the employee's charity giving. They can do a match donation, but only their portion counts on their books.

What I am after is that nagging little realization that we often spout "rowing needs to be cheaper so more people can have access!!!" and then we overpay for equipment while giving a social media tugjob to the manufacturers who donate here and there. Who gets left out? The mid level struggling program just solvent enough to take it up the pooter and pay "full price," while the top end programs don't care, and bottom waits for their handout from Fatty D's Entourage making it rain.

That's not diversity. That's rich people and their cute little pets.

[sandor]

Is it disingenuous to point to manufacturer charity and outreach, when in fact that is only made possible by taking money from the marketplace and "redistributing" it to pet causes, however noble they might be?

Who is, then, the actual donor?

I know, I let my employer take the tax write off for all my charitable gifts. That is where the money comes from right?

When you agree to the value of your wages, that is a contract between you and your employer. What you do with your money thereafter, and any accommodations you make with Uncle Sam in terms of personal tax deductions are of no interest to your employer.

There have been marketing campaigns that imply corporate goodwill based on the activities and generosity of employees, but that is just a virtue signal. There is no accounting trick in the world that allows the company to take actual credit on the books for the employee's charity giving. They can do a match donation, but only their portion counts on their books.

What I am after is that nagging little realization that we often spout "rowing needs to be cheaper so more people can have access!!!" and then we overpay for equipment while giving a social media tugjob to the manufacturers who donate here and there. Who gets left out? The mid level struggling program just solvent enough to take it up the pooter and pay "full price," while the top end programs don't care, and bottom waits for their handout from Fatty D's Entourage making it rain.

That's not diversity. That's rich people and their cute little pets.

Are you arguing for a socialist arrangement?

[rowing]

No, but I'm slightly aroused for a social-LESS arrangement.

I prefer not to hear about the charity of purveyors in the same financial quarter that everyone whines about having to fundraise and clutch-my-pearls aren't these boats/ergs/oars so expensive!!!!

[Slim]

The value of a rowing machine is the dollar amount that a buyer and seller agree to. The cost of the machine is a different thing entirely.

I’m not sure I understand why a donation made by a business to a cause they support using funds derived from selling a product is any different than me donating to a charity using funds derived from selling my time.

[rowing]

Now imagine you've been substantially overpaid, and then shouting about how much you give back.

[Slim]

Again what is being overpaid? My value as an employee is what someone is willing to pay me. How are you assessing the “value” of my labor?

[rowing]

Same way you're assessing the value of charity by manufacturers and its ultimate impact to sport diversity.

By gut feel.

[eeoyre]

People are upset that a business is taking their money and not just hoarding it/investing it back into the business.

[rowing]

No, this line of argument evolved from a discussion on the Hudson ads, rowing diversity and access, and the barriers therein.

Have a seat, grab a donut, and let it fly.