IRAs 2022

[sandor]

Sorry, but these examples that attempt to suggest that the parity is rowing is the same as NCAA hoops is all wrong.

Zero suggestion of parity.

Rather trying to establish baseline data & work from there.

I don't follow major college sports at all, and college rowing just a bit.
But i do work with data sets & trying to find actionable information from the data (rather than shaping data sets to support pre-conceived ideas)
It is enjoyable to try and let the data tell you something & be open to having your conceptions proven wrong.

Men's collegiate varsity rowing has a breadth of talent "issue".
Concentration of talent in the teams with the biggest rosters & most $$.

By comparison, over 25% of D1 basketball transfers go to D2 simply for more playing time.
Limited roster sizes, scholarships & other team controls lead to a dispersion of talent among a broader number of programs.
One caveat would be the professional aspirations - moving to a school where you can get mainstage playing time may improve professional prospects ( D league, international)

[Remomex]

Harvard over Yale today in the coxswain race by nearly 6 seconds. Just so you know I am collecting receipts on all you Charlie Butt haters.

How are those receipts looking? Clean sweep for Yale, not particularly close margins.

[fullmetal]

Here’s something to contemplate. Do you think the Harvard alums would be this forgiving if it was any other person other then Charley? Or is he getting this much leeway for his track record with the lights?

I think it's a bit of that and that the alumni probably can't agree on someone else to whom they would entrust the legacy of Harvard heavyweight crew. (Who better than someone who was successful with the lights for 28 years?) But let's be real, Charley is putting his crews in the grand final regularly, and it's hard to accidentally do that. Having said that, the lack of results (as pointed out by others) is worrying, esp with the H-Y race.

[socalstroke]

Given the caliber of opposition, you guys are basically saying that if Harvard does not medal or outright win every year, the program is a total failure. Yale just set a course record. Get real!

[FullSend]

So you're saying Harvard is a second tier program? I think expectations should be top tier which is perennially in and around the medals because that's what Washington, Yale, and to a lesser extent Cal have done over the last while. It's not like Charley just took over and needs to get his guys in

[porsche5k]

So you're saying Harvard is a second tier program? I think expectations should be top tier which is perennially in and around the medals because that's what Washington, Yale, and to a lesser extent Cal have done over the last while. It's not like Charley just took over and needs to get his guys in

I agree. I doubt the alumni are willing to give Charley a pass on getting swept by Yale and being out of the medals.

[TheNatureBoy]

Given the caliber of opposition, you guys are basically saying that if Harvard does not medal or outright win every year, the program is a total failure. Yale just set a course record. Get real!

I’m not saying the program is a total failure. But I’m sure the alums can’t be happy about the results. I can’t speak on behalf of the alumni, because I’m not one; but making the finals isn’t the standard at Harvard. Being out of the medals at Sprints and not winning the Harvard-Yale race for 8 years, can’t sit well with the alumni.

[andpaddle]

An interesting quote from Charley Butt in the Row2k recap: "If you get a real commitment from the administration, Yale's a great example of that. They're clearly committed. They have national titles in lacrosse, men's ice hockey, rowing, and league titles in basketball and football. That's been part of the President's mission. They're giving people chances to compete. Who can complain about that?"

Perhaps notable, given Harvard will be looking for a new president?

[Mango]

So you're saying Harvard is a second tier program? I think expectations should be top tier which is perennially in and around the medals because that's what Washington, Yale, and to a lesser extent Cal have done over the last while. It's not like Charley just took over and needs to get his guys in

This is so dumb. If Yale had done anything other than hire Gladstone this wouldn't even be a conversation. Charlie has yet to miss the GF since taking over Harvard heavies. He is one of 4 programs to do so during that time. Harvard, Yale, Cal, UW. Harvard is a top tier program. Firing Charlie at this point would be absurd. It would be like firing Belichick because of Josh Allen. Honestly, this line of thinking is how the Jets became the Jets and the Bills were the Bills for nearly 20 years.

[FullSend]

This whole thing started when I said "you can't just run it back and expect things to change" that doesn't mean he has to go, but if I was a real stakeholder I would want answers on what is going to be done differently moving forward - assistant shakeup, how the training is going to be changed, etc.

I remember back in 2018 when Dean was committed and they were pulling top guys from schools like St. Pauls, the narrative was "Harvard is loading up to go after Yale, this is going to be fun." And that hasn't happened, if anything they're farther away now, meanwhile Cal actually did all of that. It's not like Harvard was second and sprints where you can say Harvard has been a cut above the rest of the league.

[crewu]

So, after watching Todd Kennett dominate lightweight rowing at Cornell and then move over to the heavies and experience no real improvement in the program we now have a few years to look back on Charlie Butt's move from lightweights to heavies with no improvement in the program and possibly a slight deterioration.

Both great coaches.

And what really would you do at Harvard? Move Charlie back to the lightweights and bring back Bill Manning? Or just pay the gold standard and hire Gladstone from Yale...who could still take 2-3 years to get you to the summit.

All really quite fascinating to think about.

[FullSend]

I don't know much about current Harvard assistants, but my first thought is injecting some youth there. Yale added Gennaro and I won't pretend that isn't the Gladstone show, but they seem really high on him as a coach in waiting type.

At the very least, a guy like that can more easily connect with athletes (recruits and current). Across a lot of college sports, being able to foster those relationships is more important than ever. That's where true buy in comes from. Not saying Charley can't do that (I have no idea), but if he brings all the technical acumen then you have some fresh young voices around that can be a huge boost.

Lightweight recruits are certainly fast as hell, but they're not Clark Dean, Tom Digby, or Gennaro DiMauro. It's quite possible it takes something different to connect to guys like that than it does high level lightweights. Someone like Gennaro who has raced at Olympics relatively recently is going to have a leg up relating to those top top end guys.

[sandor]

...
Both great coaches.
...
All really quite fascinating to think about.

This is it.

Enough with the zero sum thinking.

It is not "X is awful & needs to be done away with"

It is "What do you do when you are 90+ percentile?"
It is the Eagles heading to the playoffs 8 of 10 years, playing in 5 NFC Championship games...how do you improve w/o blowing it all up?
What do you do with a QB that ranks just behind Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Brett Favre?

[ROWBOTTOM]

This is mind numbing. Steve Gladstone gets it. It is about generating really big donations in exchange for getting what you say you need to win. At Brown they did a $1B campaign with the crew as a focal point. Took that show to Cal & went big time. When the commitment there changed, he retired. Yale donors chased him, the administration bought in fully, and he'll be there as long as it stays that way or until the wheels fall off.

It isn't some mysterious coaching, martial arts "my master is better than your master" thing. Yes, you have to be an excellent coach. But its about winning the rest of it as well.

[asdad123]

This is so dumb. If Yale had done anything other than hire Gladstone this wouldn't even be a conversation. Charlie has yet to miss the GF since taking over Harvard heavies. He is one of 4 programs to do so during that time. Harvard, Yale, Cal, UW. Harvard is a top tier program. Firing Charlie at this point would be absurd. It would be like firing Belichick because of Josh Allen. Honestly, this line of thinking is how the Jets became the Jets and the Bills were the Bills for nearly 20 years.

Like some wanting the Lightning to fire their coach after getting swept by Columbus. Now they could have a 3rd straight cup

This whole thing started when I said "you can't just run it back and expect things to change" that doesn't mean he has to go, but if I was a real stakeholder I would want answers on what is going to be done differently moving forward - assistant shakeup, how the training is going to be changed, etc.

I remember back in 2018 when Dean was committed and they were pulling top guys from schools like St. Pauls, the narrative was "Harvard is loading up to go after Yale, this is going to be fun." And that hasn't happened, if anything they're farther away now, meanwhile Cal actually did all of that. It's not like Harvard was second and sprints where you can say Harvard has been a cut above the rest of the league.

I get what you're saying, but realistically how are any changes going to be made known. They're not going to publicize an update training program, rigging adjustments, etc. If there is a lack of energy in the program, I don't see that being handled anywhere but internally

This is mind numbing. Steve Gladstone gets it. It is about generating really big donations in exchange for getting what you say you need to win. At Brown they did a $1B campaign with the crew as a focal point. Took that show to Cal & went big time. When the commitment there changed, he retired. Yale donors chased him, the administration bought in fully, and he'll be there as long as it stays that way or until the wheels fall off.

It isn't some mysterious coaching, martial arts "my master is better than your master" thing. Yes, you have to be an excellent coach. But its about winning the rest of it as well.

This is pretty nebulous though. The same point has been made many times on the past few pages, without any detail really attached. What are the resources lacking at Harvard?

The school isn't supportive in the recruiting process? It sounds like others would disagree. Is there a level of equipment, training camps, flexible schedules, etc? If you were Harvard HC pitching the admins and donors for more resources, what are the concrete objectives?