USRowing | Youths Nats 2023

[Mango]

The NSR has a proper progression. So sure...adopt that. I have little issue with having so many age brackets themselves. But I do have issues if is at the expense of the National Championship. If it is between sending kids straight TT and final and the u15M 1x, cut the u151x.

NYS, VA, and Philly don't need their own qualifiers. They can go through NE and MA regionals. which have no conflict with their current calendar. Their regattas themselves will live on.

Money is an issue for the NGB. I don't mind them making a profit. And I don't mind them making a profit at their National Championship. But I am a purest when it comes to Championship and Championship Qualification events. You shouldn't sacrifice real racing for the sake of cramming in entry fee's.

There are all sorts of options. Partner with breweries in the fall like 5ks do. I have been to some work conferences where there is a friends and family schedule of events. Maybe take a page from that book, host a winery tour one night? Food truck rodeo beer festival after racing on Friday for parents. Bring in a couple bands. There are options that don't include charging huge sums to try out for the U23 Team and selecting your National Champion in a head race.

[oldman]

US: 3.8M sqmi (334M people)
UK: 245K sqkm (67M)

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[lt.wolf]

I agree with the sentiment of some sort of rep added to the progression, maybe just for the “youth events” The price tag is just way too big and the stakes are high for young athletes to be limited a 1900 meter trial and one side by side 2k.

Start the event a day earlier for the Youth events to work in a half day of reps. God I just said add a day to the event as I melt here in this heat.

[a_coach]

NSR uses different progressions (tt straight to finals) for younger ages while preserving heats and reps for the most competitive. That makes a lot of sense to me. It would also make sense to use different qualification standards for u15 and u16 when around half the field or more is qualifying in some regions.

[crewu]

The format at Youth Nats is fantastic - thanks to the LOC holding power over USRowing. If it were up to USRowing there would be no B, C or D finals just like at regionals. The LOC has mandated these events. If you are half way decently competitive at this level you go there and race a TT, semi and then A or B final. If you are not that competitive you race the TT, C or D final and then enjoy the beach and watch top racing to inspire you to go back and do better next year.

No one wants to go through an additional round of racing in the Florida heat. Youth Nationals is perfect as it is.

[fullmetal]

USRowing *is* the LOC for all regional and national championships. I think at the national championship regatta, there is value in ranking crews that aren't in the A final.

[lt.wolf]

For at the least”youth” events a full progression should be followed for racing. Let’s teach em a full racing progression for the next step in their rowing career


Youth Nationals is bigger and more fantastic than ever, it will be quite something to see how it can expand.

[bendtheoar]

NYS, VA, and Philly don't need their own qualifiers. They can go through NE and MA regionals. which have no conflict with their current calendar. Their regattas themselves will live on.

The only issue with NYS being merged into the NE regional is the size of the NY region. There are 175+ more entries in NY than NE total and more athletes compete at NYS than any other junior/HS regatta except for Stotesbury and Youth Nationals. If the NY teams were to go to NE it would need to be a 4-5 day regatta to accomodate the entries. As it is, the NE regional prohibits any NY team from competing in any Youth National event if they have attended NYS regardless of which qualifier the team has elected to use as their qualification regatta,

I do prefer having some system of reps going into semis as I have a competitive and philisophical issue with a crew competing at a major sprint regatta without getting a chance to race side by side, and I do worry about the situation where something unexpected or unavoidable happens to a very fast crew in a TT which keeps them out of advancing into a semi-final with a chance to advance to an A or B final.

[FullSend]

The format at Youth Nats is fantastic - thanks to the LOC holding power over USRowing. If it were up to USRowing there would be no B, C or D finals just like at regionals. The LOC has mandated these events. If you are half way decently competitive at this level you go there and race a TT, semi and then A or B final. If you are not that competitive you race the TT, C or D final and then enjoy the beach and watch top racing to inspire you to go back and do better next year.

No one wants to go through an additional round of racing in the Florida heat. Youth Nationals is perfect as it is.

Yea I bet Sarasotas Youth Men's 8 was just fine being within 2 seconds of the Newport Crew that medaled and not ever getting a side by side race in contention because otherwise it's too hot.

U15/16/17 - sure do whatever. The youth events are a huge deal to those competitors, that's the very last regatta for some of them. They are owed a full progression of some sort

[oldman]

Did anyone ask Sarasota how they feel about time trials?

[Mango]

NYS, VA, and Philly don't need their own qualifiers. They can go through NE and MA regionals. which have no conflict with their current calendar. Their regattas themselves will live on.

The only issue with NYS being merged into the NE regional is the size of the NY region. There are 175+ more entries in NY than NE total and more athletes compete at NYS than any other junior/HS regatta except for Stotesbury and Youth Nationals. If the NY teams were to go to NE it would need to be a 4-5 day regatta to accomodate the entries. As it is, the NE regional prohibits any NY team from competing in any Youth National event if they have attended NYS regardless of which qualifier the team has elected to use as their qualification regatta,

I do prefer having some system of reps going into semis as I have a competitive and philisophical issue with a crew competing at a major sprint regatta without getting a chance to race side by side, and I do worry about the situation where something unexpected or unavoidable happens to a very fast crew in a TT which keeps them out of advancing into a semi-final with a chance to advance to an A or B final.

This is fair. I am curious what programs would do if NYS was dropped as a USR qualifier, what would NE’s look like? Does everybody in NYS do both? It’s so scholastic driven, I assume their entries stay similar. You lose some of the pure clubs, but I don’t think all the scholastic crews double up.

[fullmetal]

Did anyone ask Sarasota how they feel about time trials?

You mean SANCA/Nathan Benderson operations? They're under contract with USRowing to run the regatta, so everything's been negotiated, including price. Time trials are great because they don't have to supply 7-8 volunteers all day as stakeboat holders. All the venue has to do is move a start tent to the 100m mark and set up a Lynx camera there (with generator and portajohn). Also saves on gas since referee launches aren't running up and down the course every eight minutes.

[bendtheoar]

NYS, VA, and Philly don't need their own qualifiers. They can go through NE and MA regionals. which have no conflict with their current calendar. Their regattas themselves will live on.

The only issue with NYS being merged into the NE regional is the size of the NY region. There are 175+ more entries in NY than NE total and more athletes compete at NYS than any other junior/HS regatta except for Stotesbury and Youth Nationals. If the NY teams were to go to NE it would need to be a 4-5 day regatta to accomodate the entries. As it is, the NE regional prohibits any NY team from competing in any Youth National event if they have attended NYS regardless of which qualifier the team has elected to use as their qualification regatta,

I do prefer having some system of reps going into semis as I have a competitive and philisophical issue with a crew competing at a major sprint regatta without getting a chance to race side by side, and I do worry about the situation where something unexpected or unavoidable happens to a very fast crew in a TT which keeps them out of advancing into a semi-final with a chance to advance to an A or B final.

This is fair. I am curious what programs would do if NYS was dropped as a USR qualifier, what would NE’s look like? Does everybody in NYS do both? It’s so scholastic driven, I assume their entries stay similar. You lose some of the pure clubs, but I don’t think all the scholastic crews double up.

As of right now there is almost no doubling up as the NE rules do not allow anyone who competes at the NYS regatta to even enter Youth National events at NE. There are probably 3-4 NY teams that only go to NE for whatever reason they have, but there are probably more that would compete there, even if they kept NY as their qualifier. If NE was the only qualifier about 75-85% of the entries at NYS would end up going to NE as most NY teams, scholastic and club, are seeking bids to Youths. One final stat is that although almost 80% of the NYS member teams are scholastic, the percentage of total entries from clubs is substantially higher than their 20% of organizational membership with upwards of 40-50% of the entries coming from clubs depending on the year.

[Mango]

NYS, VA, and Philly don't need their own qualifiers. They can go through NE and MA regionals. which have no conflict with their current calendar. Their regattas themselves will live on.

The only issue with NYS being merged into the NE regional is the size of the NY region. There are 175+ more entries in NY than NE total and more athletes compete at NYS than any other junior/HS regatta except for Stotesbury and Youth Nationals. If the NY teams were to go to NE it would need to be a 4-5 day regatta to accomodate the entries. As it is, the NE regional prohibits any NY team from competing in any Youth National event if they have attended NYS regardless of which qualifier the team has elected to use as their qualification regatta,

I do prefer having some system of reps going into semis as I have a competitive and philisophical issue with a crew competing at a major sprint regatta without getting a chance to race side by side, and I do worry about the situation where something unexpected or unavoidable happens to a very fast crew in a TT which keeps them out of advancing into a semi-final with a chance to advance to an A or B final.

This is fair. I am curious what programs would do if NYS was dropped as a USR qualifier, what would NE’s look like? Does everybody in NYS do both? It’s so scholastic driven, I assume their entries stay similar. You lose some of the pure clubs, but I don’t think all the scholastic crews double up.

As of right now there is almost no doubling up as the NE rules do not allow anyone who competes at the NYS regatta to even enter Youth National events at NE. There are probably 3-4 NY teams that only go to NE for whatever reason they have, but there are probably more that would compete there, even if they kept NY as their qualifier. If NE was the only qualifier about 75-85% of the entries at NYS would end up going to NE as most NY teams, scholastic and club, are seeking bids to Youths. One final stat is that although almost 80% of the NYS member teams are scholastic, the percentage of total entries from clubs is substantially higher than their 20% of organizational membership with upwards of 40-50% of the entries coming from clubs depending on the year.

Also fair. We agree on a better progression being important for the sport/national championships. You have to be able to condense the schedule. And to do that, so you need to either bring in less crews and/or have less events. So something has to give. How do you manage that?

I have long been in favor of just having 1 National Championship rather than the million we have now. I could get behind pushing the regatta out a few weeks and combining with clubs for a single extended event with the U23/Seniors. I know USR will never want to give up one of their three largest events, but I am not advocating for USR to host less events, just advocating for them to host fewer "National Championships".

[rowing]

It just doesn't matter what we think.

The coaches, organizers and committees sort this, and they make adjustments from time to time.

But, just in case you're mistaken about reality: there is no future where rowing "rights the ship" and recaptures its glory days. Not going to happen. So stop thinking "if we just fix this one thing..." No. Just no.

Just accept the interest "bump" when "The Boys in the Boat" premieres, and then watch it all dissipate within a year. Six months if Clooney shits the bed with the final cut.

In no time at all, we will be back to arguing which venue and which schedule change will be the magic fairy dust that turns us all into handsome princes.

Ribbit. Ribbit.